Art show
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Yesterday, Saturday May 10th, I got to the shop about noon to set up. The art show people were there, but nothing was hung on the wall. I carefully worked around their stuff, being extra polite (in view of last month's debacle), and set up the shop using only half our space. One o'clock came and went and the photo's were still on the floor. We opened and struggled along with our limited space for a couple of hours. Then it got real busy and we ran out of space, and the photo's were still on the floor. I started to move our single stands into the rest of the shop and we carried on. There were other, minor problems, but we worked around them.
Bottom line here is that we must make it crystal clear to the exhibitors that they MUST have all art work on the art wall BEFORE noon on opening day. I require the one hour just to set up the shop. This has not been possible for the last two art shows. We are getting busier every weekend and will continue to do so.
There seems to be an attitude among the exhibitors (from day one) that they own the space and we must accomodate them for their exhibit. It is my understanding that they are our guests and our operation comes first and must be accomodated by them. They seem to expect us to work around them and not the opposite. Not all exhibitors were problematic, so lets all get on the same page here. -
Thanks for being understanding Harv. People putting art up anywhere tend to come with a strange attitude (I've found).
I'll make it very clear to the next exhibitor that we need them to set up when the shop is closed.
Team Midnight Ridazz was able to bring in over $2,000 on Saturday night, and we had over 100 people at the Oven. It was a good night for the shop (public relations-wise), and a really good night for their Aids fundraiser.
Thanks for putting up with any wierd attitudes of entitlement, etc. about floor space the day they were setting up. I will make it a point to tell any new exhibitors about our need for them to stay out of our way during shop hours. -
WOW.... that's great for TMR.... I like the pictures that they still have up.... maybe we should buy some....
Has any of the past exhibitors ever sent us a thank you letter???... fucking ingrates ;-)
I think we should set the rulz for installation times.... fridays, saturday before noon, FINISHED!!! unless otherwise arranged... tell them if they can't do it then, so sorry.... -
Okay - that seems like a reasonable rule for exhibitors.
It will likely make things emotionally easier for them - nt having to deal with any of us glarin at them for getting in the way all day long.
I guess we'll have to keep the wall kind of clear for the time right before the exhibition begins.
No thank-yous, except for verbal thanks and a few big hugs an smiles :)
I guess all this art night is really doing for the Oven is keeping it lively and interesting for everyone in the L.A. bike scene. I had a really good time on this last ride. I hope I'll be able to take Valentina and Susie with me in June or July. We'll see. -
Also where is our 10% which was unanimously agreed and voted on for all art exhibits? Thanks yous would be nice but show me the cash for use of our space and the inconvencies of stumbling around /working around the installations. I hear our rent is going up again so its only fair to collect this. A normal gallery's fee would be 4x-5x time more...... I noticed our own donation jar was a big fat "0" for the night............
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Actually, standard gallery take is more like 50%. And the whole "owning the space" thing is pretty commonplace. I did some work at my school's gallery, and there was little respect for the place (holes in the wall, wine spills, crap left everywhere). We should definitely set ground rules, and do it very firmly with them. And then send reminder emails the day before just so they know.
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What ever happened to the sense of community that the Oven use to have? Everything now seems to be about money. Hell we have next months rent already and folks are complaining that the "Benefit for the Aids Ride" didn't throw down cash to us!!! WTF, it was a Benefit!! For AIDS!!! Is that all we're about now? It strikes me as the more financially viable we become, the less soul we have... I for one am dishearten. Next we're going to demand that the kids who come into the shop pay before we fix a flat.... We're developing the Wal-Mart Bicycling Advocacy mentality. The more bikes out there the better advocates we are... We use to fix bikes for individual people, people with names, faces, friends... now we're the cheap kool bike store.... I don't know.... is this where we're really going????
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I wasn't party to any of the activities in question, but it sounds like the general disrespect for the space and people working in the shop set a bad tone that is now being transferred to complaints about money. My experience with artists is that they are used to dealing with gallery spaces that are owned by an "institution" (school, museum, gallery owned by a rich guy who wished he was an artist). They generally feel disrespected by these institutions and so don't show much respect back to the space. Like most people, they will fall back into their habits unless they are reminded that this is not that situation. Hanging art is a surprisingly subtle and time consuming task and scheduling to do that during shop hours on a weekend seems like a recipie for disaster regardless. Seems like a few simple groundrules, a quick reminder of who we are and why we're offering up the space, and a set time dedicating to hanging the show should make this work better.
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Charities usually pull off most of donated funds as administrative fees. This can run 80 or 90 percent, at least 50 percent. So where is the community spirit there? As long as we are paying rent, repairing the space (recent plumbing emergency), buying supplies, replacing stolen tools, replacing broken equipment, expanding our capabilities, etc. we have to have a small (almost token) amount for expenses.
The Kitchen charges 40% more than we do for stand time, almost as much for a project bike as we ask for an RTR bike, refuse kids altogether, ban troublemakers, etc. We are so much more community-oriented, that people come cross town to US.
I would say that is a pretty good track record. I have not heard any complaints. -
We're not trying to be like anyone else, we (or at least I) don't want to follow any corporate model. The complaints are from with-in, from the heart.... We should have a growing list of volunteers, but we don't... where are all of those folks who were around last year?? We can't blame that on Gary any longer. Something is missing? I'd rather have more friends than customers....
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I still didn't get an answer to the 10% other than Steve thinking , once again I'm being unreasonable for asking for a few "crumbs" when
1)someone is bragging about collecting $2000+ basically, not only using our space for FREE but disrupting our normal operations.
2) Steve you were not Here on Saturday when the art group took over the place during shop time and acted indignant, in my opinion ,when we tried to do our normal shop work in 1/2 the space. They took over the computer area without asking to my knowledge, so we were unable to do any kind of parts searches for our own customers. Constantly blocking the doorways munching on tacos,etc - ( no - didn't even offer any of us any of those either). Hey , if they even tossed $10-20 in our donation jar I probably would not make an issue of it. But put up with all this inconveniences and not get a single $1 and you think I"M being unreasonable?
3)I did a quick search of local rental halls. The closest Hall is Sycamore Park Recreational center at Ave 45 and Figueora. The rental for ONE Saturday night :
$1300.OO NO alchohol and need to be out by 12 midnight.
If you want alchohol : $200 more for the City of LA permit AND then you need to buy the Alchohol from them at their prices.
So the messly 10% is a bargain. 10% doesn't even cover the Alchohol permit. The 10% was a previously agreed upon policy. I don't recall ANY VOTE to waive it so WHY IS THERE EVEN A DISCUSSION????? If some of you wanted to waive the fee - fine let's discuss and agree in advance. But that never happened. Unless we don't get to vote any more.
The only reason we are making rent so quickly is because some of us are busting our butts to do RTR bikes, which you anti money types didn't want us to be doing either. We still would be barely making rent without the RTR bikes.
I vote we discontinue all future art shows. I don't see where it is worth all the aggrevation, the alchohol is completely illegal and we need all the space to properly do the real shop work. The artist apparently don't appreiciate the HUGE break they are getting. If Hector, apparently wants us to now pay almost all the rent we should have all the say on all the space which includes all the wall space and the loft.
It's NOT about the money STEVE you and a few others fail to realize there is nothing FREE about it. When you think you are giving something away for free at the expense of others who now don't have the space to do their own work, don't have access to the normal tools and parts, have to put up with all the inconveniences of the non shop material all over our work counters therefore providing inferior service to existing customers. Its a MAJOR problem. If we don't even get a thank you (or a taco HA!) we should get some compensation for all the inconveniences and a messly 10% is a pretty small price given the alternatives.
So I still want an answer to the original question - where is the 10% which is the previoulsy agreed upon amount voted and approved by consensus fee for Art shows. -
Posted By: sitanoWe're not trying to be like anyone else, we (or at least I) don't want to follow any corporate model. The complaints are from with-in, from the heart.... We should have a growing list of volunteers, but we don't... where are all of those folks who were around last year?? We can't blame that on Gary any longer. Something is missing? I'd rather have more friends than customers....
what exactly are the facts to back up this statement?? You were here Sunday and I thought we had a great group and good vibe:
Volunteers who stopped by at some time:
Martin (after Gary)
Natasha(after Gary)
Winona (after Gary)
Jacob(after Gary)
James (after Gary)
Harv
Oscar
Arthur
Steve I
Steve C.
Myself (mostly after Gary)
there may have been others
So about half are " post Gary" additions.
Also On Tuesday:
Andre (after Gary)
David (after Gary)
Martin( after Gary()
Juan (after Gary)
Linda
Harv
myself
there may have been others
again about half or more after Gary . So Pretty good for ,about 5 months( Gary left after Thanskgiving - and that was THANKSGIVING HA!)
At the risk of insulting any of "all those folks who were around last year??" the only one or two I can even recall missing have moved out of the area.
Also we daily get new inquires from new potential volunteers( one moving from Sacremento just yesterday) so your argument seems pretty thin to me.............
Sure we can alway use more volunteers but a 50% increase in 5 months seem s pretty good to me and the donations bikes, parts and other stuff is increasing just as much - more that we can handle ( of course we don't have someone like Gary taking all the better stuff home HA!!)...... -
Steve said:
"We're not trying to be like anyone else, we (or at least I) don't want to follow any corporate model."
When we first moved to the Fig. location, you were having us study the Kitchen procedures at great length, read their documentation, and discuss their methods in detail. This is why I made the reference to them that I did. If it is not appropriate now, so be it. -
Just a detail about the art show this month, Team Midnight Ridazz installed two new track lights to the eastern rack of ceiling lights. It ain't much, but it is a little something to improve the shop.
Also, a lot of people had a great time, myself included.
I wish we could collectively wrachet things down, and start focusing on something other than bruised egos. -
"Bruised Egos"? You had a good time at some other members' expense and you dismiss their opinions and concerns with a judgmental and condescending remark like "bruised Egos"??? What happened to consensus building? Frankly doesn't look like consensus matters when they don't agree with you. Apparently previous consensus votes don't matter either, one can simply ignore agreed upon consensus votes and do whatever they want with without asking or telling anyone.
For the record one more time where is the 10%? Which was an agreed upon consensus vote. I'll keep raising the issue until it is answered. The question is NOT going away until its answered!! It WILL BE the number one agenda item on next month's meeting if it hasn't been answered.
And particularly for Steve , its NOT about the money, its about the principal of honoring consensus votes and proper conduct in a collective/cooperative.
If you want to say it doesn't matter, then lets not kid ourselves this is NOT a collective or a cooperative. Let's just appoint Josef King of the Oven and rename the place Josef's Art and Kidde bike shop and I'll shut up.
I apologize in advance for any condescending remarks that may bruise some egos but the ones in question are so big it probably won't make a dent....... -
JHarv, why don't you tell us how you really feel about this? Just kidding. Like the founders of the U.S., who started with a clean slate and formulated the constitution, we initially agreed to some basic guidelines about how we would run the Oven, when it became much larger than the old garage operation which was, after all, at Josef's home.
We reviewed the Kitchen's policies and procedures and tried to avoid their initial mistakes. We established the consensus principle, the "shop manager" concept, some ground rules, some objectives, etc.
For the most part, all of the above is ignored on our every day operation. Decisions come up, issues are decided, and then ignored the next day. Some problems repeat over and over. i.e. issuing keys to the shop (to an outside party, or non-core member) upon a summary decision of one person. How many times do we have to get burned on this one? Shop Management: This means what it says, the Shop Manager is in charge on that day. There should be no summary over ruling by any other individual. Grievance resolution: We discussed various procedures and failed to really nail this one down. Staff meetings: Disaster. Whoever talks loudest gets heard. More summary decisions, no vote, no consensus, no record of what was decided, no continuity.
Its a wonder we can still function, but this is probably due to sheer determination and enthusiasm to put in long hours and hard work by some core members and volunteers. But we have grown so big recently, that the old fly-by-your-seat-of-your-pants methods are not holding up. Is success spoiling us? Can we survive in spite of it? -
Posted By: JHarvFor the record one more time where is the 10%? Which was an agreed upon consensus vote. I'll keep raising the issue until it is answered.
J. Harv, I didn't ask Team Midnight Ridazz for 10% of their art sales for this past Saturday night. My bad. I wasn't on top of things with that one.
You are really good at digging for wrongs that others have done. You are NOT very good at admitting any wrongs you may have done yourself.Posted By: harvFor the most part, all of the above is ignored on our every day operation. Decisions come up, issues are decided, and then ignored the next day. Some problems repeat over and over. i.e. issuing keys to the shop (to an outside party, or non-core member) upon a summary decision of one person. How many times do we have to get burned on this one? Shop Management: This means what it says, the Shop Manager is in charge on that day. There should be no summary over ruling by any other individual. Grievance resolution: We discussed various procedures and failed to really nail this one down. Staff meetings: Disaster. Whoever talks loudest gets heard. More summary decisions, no vote, no consensus, no record of what was decided, no continuity.
Harv's got it right here. This is what we are. Nobody is making a living doing this, and so we're each only interested in how things run to satisfy ourselves and a few of our closer friends. So far, we have done pretty well. This is thanks to a lot of hard work by a lot of different people AND a culture of inclusiveness and cooperation. -
Posted By: JHarvAnd particularly for Steve , its NOT about the money, its about the principal of honoring consensus votes and proper conduct in a collective/cooperative.
If you want to say it doesn't matter, then lets not kid ourselves this is NOT a collective or a cooperative. Let's just appoint Josef King of the Oven and rename the place Josef's Art and Kidde bike shop and I'll shut up.
I wonder what qualifies you, John Harvey, as a fair judge of all things collective and cooperative? I get things done because of the force of my personality. I admit, this is not the most "democratic" way to do things, but it works alright sometimes and all it requires is a little asking around on my part to see if doing things a certain way is okay with others. I also try to understand and help people, no matter their condition in life, in any way I can.
You tend to act in a caustic and aggressive way to young children and anyone who doesn't look like "a paying customer". You are focused on running a bike shop, and selling merchandise, to the exclusion of socializing and ridig bikes.
There are enough places in L.A. where you have to pay a fee of some sort to feel welcome. I've always thought of the Bike Oven as a place where paying and money are side issues to getting people together to learn, hang out, and teach one another. I haven't asked for, nor would I accept, a refund of the cash value of what I have given the idea of the Oven. I fronted $400 for our first month's rent, and a couple hundreds more for the second month. I've spent thousands over the past several years on rides, parties, tools, and parts for the Oven. I've also spent hundred of man-hours working to build this idea up - to the detriment of my own life goals, and counter to the interests of my own, new, family. I freakin' clean the toilet in the shop ALL THE DAMN TIME. You can see where this investment in time and resources has led other to associate me with a sort of absolute authority over all things Bike Oven. I don't agree with this natural sentiment that forms in the minds of others, but I have exploited it to have good time and throw parties using our shared resources for my purposes (like holding a few big art shows and parties).
I understand where you are coming from, and I accept that I get a free pass to break all sorts of rules because I helped start the place. Fine. I will scale things back a bit with using the special influence I exert on the Oven., but not if it means handing more control of the place to Mr. J. Harv the bike business man and his caustic behavior! You've put in a lot of time, money, resources, and energy into making the Bike Oven what it is today, but you don't get handed the trust and respect of a community overnight. I had to work my ass off to have others see me as someone they would be willing to share and cooperate with. It would be really great if you could spend a little time focusing on that too. -
Can I get a big AHMEN.... I love ya man, but more so your idealism... it should always be more about the politics than the person... read the mission statement.... base everything on that, if that doesn't work, change the mission statement... but currently it works for me.
Mission Statement
The Bike Oven endeavors to serve the community and improve the quality of urban life by promoting and facilitating, through culture change, the use of bicycling as an alternative to the non-sustainable and climate damaging fossil-fuel powered motor vehicle transportation system. -
Josef,
Please Do Not scale things back! Regardless of the politics, your idealism and free spirit attitude give The Bike Oven a vibe and sense of community that I don't feel from the other bike co-ops in town. You have sacrificed a lot to get this thing going and should be able to benefit at least slightly from the fruits of your labors. I have not been able to come and enjoy the festivities nor volunteer my time recently, but those who can should see The Oven not just as a self-sustaining bike "shop", but also as a place to have fun and interact with the cycling community in general, which is not always profitable, but may build bridges for future endeavors. Keeping the rent paid and the power turned on are critical issues, but so is having a good time once in a while!!!
Best Vishes,
Miss M.!
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